Season 1 - EP #44 - Greg Hall and Brent Thomson

Season 1 - EP #44 - Greg Hall and Brent Thomson

Brent Thomson is a New Zealand jockey, who is best known for winning the Cox Plate on four occasions and his association with the champion horse Dulcify. The son of a leading trainer Kevin Thomson, Brent became the champion apprentice of New Zealand at the age of 16.

Greg Hall, nicknamed "The G", is a retired Australian jockey who is best known for riding Subzero to victory in the 1992 Melbourne Cup. Hall also won a Cox Plate, two Golden Slippers and two Victoria Derbies riding for the likes of Lloyd Williams, Sheikh Mohammed and Kerry Packer.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Wayne: Well we're very lucky here today because it's obviously Melbourne Cup week and what a big week it is here in Victoria. And privileged to have two absolute champion jockeys with me. Brent Thompson, who by the way is a Kiwi, but we claim him because he was good. And then we have the great Greg Hall.

[00:00:19] Wayne: Both champions. And Melbourne Cup week. How are we gentlemen? 

[00:00:24] Greg: Excellent. Thanks Wayne. Thanks for having us. And uh, he is not a Kiwi, actually. He's an Australian 

[00:00:29] Brent: citizen. Yes, citizen . I, I jumped, did jump ship a long time ago. 1980 I think Wayne, but um, in fact you were playing playing in those, those but 80, yeah, 89.

[00:00:40] Brent: I 80 89, yes. 89. Anyway, I do, do, well remember, but um. Lovely to be here and, yeah, it's a big focus on the 

[00:00:49] Wayne: Melbourne Cup. I wanted to, I wanted to get you guys in actually for a little while, but no better time now. The Monday before the most famous Tuesday in, in racing and, like, [00:01:00] does it excite you this week?

[00:01:01] Wayne: Obviously you've got a lot of functions and there's different things that you have to go to, but do you still get excited around it? 

[00:01:08] Greg: Yeah. Yeah. Now we're retired, Wayne. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still get excited. Um, you know, got a lot of functions and, um, well, we're not having the parade this year down, down, um, Wanson Street.

[00:01:20] Greg: But, um, so normally you go to that and, uh, it's, it's a busy time and run into a lot of people and, um, to go to the races and, um, just sort of, uh, mingle and, uh, but it's, it's, it's, uh, exciting in a way, in, in a way that, um. You wish, we're retired now, but you wish you were out there, you know, rather than the crowd.

[00:01:44] Greg: Now, I 

[00:01:44] Wayne: have the privilege of, uh, well I know you a little bit better, Greg, but having had some chats with you as well, Brent, about, you know, what you've done in racing. But I want to talk a little bit about, obviously, where you, where you came from, how you got your start. A little bit of that, because I do know that you two are best [00:02:00] mates, and I think you might have been, Best man, a few, a couple or a few weddings.

[00:02:08] Wayne: That's 

[00:02:10] Brent: uncharted territory that 

[00:02:11] Wayne: one. Yes, yes. That's 

[00:02:12] Greg: enclosed, that's certain, that's involved. But um, you 

[00:02:15] Wayne: know, go through, and by all means, you two, uh, you know, get carried away with, you know, where did it all start, how did you meet? Um, and then I want to get a little bit political. Um, with you in particular, Greg, and I don't know about what you think, Brent, but I had a couple of conversations with Greg, uh, the other day, and it's in and around being a Melbourne Cup winning jockey or a coxswain, whatever it may be, but just.

[00:02:42] Wayne: They could do it better, but we'll get into that a little bit later. Take us back to the start, you two. Um, 

[00:02:47] Brent: well, as you know, I'll just bounce off him to begin with, like, so this week, or first Tuesday, November clearly means, um, something, a little more to Greg, um, [00:03:00] because obviously he won the race on sub, sub zero.

[00:03:02] Brent: You're unlucky. I know that. Yeah, I was. I, in reality, I should have. I probably could have won it more, more than one time, but, um, history will say I didn't. But, you know, so, you know, an event like the Melbourne Cup clearly means, or Melbourne Cup Day, means a lot more to him than, than me, but, you know, still, at the end of the day, it's still part of those four days of a great carnival, and, um, and so to be like, for instance, on Saturday, um, you know, having won a derby that It's a great buzz, and uh, I had a wonderful day one year, someone reminded me of having won the three majors on the day, so any part of that four days is wonderful, um, but getting back to how we met, well, um, I came over to Rye for Colin Hayes in 1978, and Greg had come down from Queensland.

[00:03:54] Brent: up there. Um, and, um, and, uh, you know, he, [00:04:00] uh, had just arrived fairly briefly, I think, Greg, in Melbourne, as I did, and, um, sort of met at the, at track work, and our, uh, relationship sort of evolved as mates, um, beyond that. 

[00:04:13] Wayne: It'd be fair to say you, uh, Chalk and cheese, you two? Uh, 

[00:04:16] Brent: I think so, I'd like to think so.

[00:04:20] Greg: I remember that show, the odd... Ying and 

[00:04:21] Brent: Yang? 

[00:04:23] Greg: The opposite, opposite is back there. That show weren't called The Odd Couple, let's put it that way, yeah. But um, it works. And, and 

[00:04:32] Wayne: just... So you come over, you ride for a stable, and I'm learning this, but I don't think a lot of people know this. So back then, I assume it's the same, so once you're with a stable, and you're the number one rider for that stable, then you don't ride for anyone else, unless you don't have a 

[00:04:49] Brent: ride.

[00:04:49] Brent: You're quite right. Um, yeah, in the main, um, and at that period of time, like, we always had plenty of horses here that [00:05:00] were just, um, mainly here for the, for the carnival time, um, because the big base was in South Australia in Adelaide, or at Lindsay Park rather. And, and so, you know, let's say we had a stable of about 30 rotating all, all the time.

[00:05:15] Brent: So, yeah, I mainly just rode for the stable unless we didn't have a ride, then I was able to take, take a ride in, in those, those races. But in some cases we had a couple runners per race, you know. 

[00:05:27] Greg: Um, Hey, when you first come out and, um, Were you 19 then, when you went on Fury's Order, the first Cox Blight? Ah, 17.

[00:05:37] Greg: 17? Yes. And then you went home? Yeah. And then, we met then, at the track? Yes. And I went back to Queensland. Right. And then you, you come back and then we connect it up from there. That's, that's right. 

[00:05:50] Brent: Yeah, well, so, I can't. 

[00:05:51] Greg: You were riding for Hayes and I was riding for Henry Davis. 

[00:05:55] Brent: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Well, I, because I, first of all, came over as a, as a 17 year [00:06:00] old and then I came back the following year, um, um, still riding in New Zealand, but come over for the Melbourne Cup Carnival, um, the Spring Carnival and, uh, and then the following year is that, that's when I got the job to ride for the Hayes stable.

[00:06:15] Brent: And how'd 

[00:06:15] Greg: that come about, mate? Um, 

[00:06:17] Brent: I think the Cox Plate had a lot to do with that. Having, you know, won it as a 17 year old and then as a... As, as a 19 year old, um, and then, which was on Family Man, Family Man, yeah, then Colin Hayes came to New Zealand for the yearling sales, which was in those days at Trentham, nowadays, because I work for New Zealand Bloodstock, where the main, the sales then became Karaka, which is near, uh, Auckland, 20, uh, just about 30 minutes south of Auckland.

[00:06:48] Brent: Didn't you 

[00:06:49] Wayne: get a nickname? 

[00:06:50] Brent: The boat in and around that . Uh, well, Keith, Keith Helio was a journalist in those, uh, days, way back with the Herald son, um, Wayne. [00:07:00] And, and, um, he wrote an article on me as a 17 year old coming to ride the Horse Fury's order. And, and it sort of stuck, you know, um, again, probably 'cause of the Cox plate that it made a headline and, and seemed to stick, uh, um.

[00:07:14] Brent: To this day, yeah, I shake my head. And the 

[00:07:18] Wayne: only, still the uh, or the only jockey to win four Cox plates on four different 

[00:07:24] Brent: horses. That's right, yeah, yeah, like Hugh obviously did it on the Great Wings. Um, uh, so, but you know, still a minority, I think it is harder to win it on four. Uh, four different horses.

[00:07:38] Brent: Oh, for sure. You only 

[00:07:38] Greg: had 

[00:07:39] Wayne: to, you only had to sit on that other horse and 

[00:07:41] Brent: steer it. Yeah. Just a passenger. 

[00:07:44] Greg: Yeah. 

[00:07:44] Wayne: Exactly. So definitely harder. And, and Greg, um, your, your childhood, uh, very different. Take us, take us through that. And I know, and I've heard you speak before, but it's, uh, you didn't have it easy.[00:08:00] 

[00:08:00] Greg: No, I was the youngest of three and, um, I was born in Adelaide and, uh, My father, um, and my mother, um, well I don't know, I was two years of age when and, um, I was deserted and my dad drove my brother and sister back to Melbourne and the story goes is, um, he put me on a plane and, um, in those days there was only Essendon Airport and, um, um, as a two year old and, um, And the story goes that, you know, Dad had, I don't know whether he had a divorce or not, but Mum had another bloke and um, and um, I got on a plane and landed in Essendon and one of his mates picked me up and um, well thank God he did, it would have been pretty hard getting a taxi as a two year old.

[00:08:57] Greg: And um, and then um, it [00:09:00] wasn't until 1979, I found out all this later, that um, The mother didn't have custody of the kids then, and um, I'm not sure whether she, well obviously she didn't really want us, but um, and uh, albeit I still love her and um, there's water under the bridge now, and um, Yeah, so, um, I, uh, my dad was a, my dad was a jockey.

[00:09:30] Greg: People always ask me how, how'd you become a jockey, Greg? And my father was a jockey, and he had four brothers that were jockeys, and five sisters that married jockeys. My brother was a jockey, and his son was a jockey, and I was a jockey, and my son was a jockey. And I said to Dad, I want to go and work for NASA.

[00:09:47] Greg: And he said, that's not going to happen, son. And I ended up leaving school at 12. I was at Quida Lodge, the famous stable, it's still there today. And, um, I was there at eight year old and um, I left school at [00:10:00] 12 and um, got my apprenticeship when I was 13. And then, um, I've been told in life, um, nowadays that Greg, you got the 12 right?

[00:10:08] Greg: But you're supposed to do years 12, not leave at 12, not leave 

[00:10:11] Wayne: at 12. Yeah. Well, people, you look at jockeys now, and I, and I say this and, and I don't say it because I'm sitting with you guys, but if you look at all the sports in the world. And you look, you know, the NFL, AFL, Rugby League, Rugby Union, Soccer, all of the, all of the contact sports, you know, uh, Formula One drivers, who now are, you know, the, the technology says it, they're protected, even the motorbikes now, they come off and they slide, and, so there's all, Jockeys, I think, given that you're on an animal that weighs half a tonne, with a mind of its own, and you're not, you guys are, I mean, you're going at what, 70 clicks, 70 kilometres an hour, with another 15 to 20, 500 kilo horses around you.

[00:10:58] Wayne: I mean, incredibly [00:11:00] courageous, but not only courageous from that situation, but what you put your body through to be a jockey. Tell us a little bit about that. 

[00:11:09] Brent: Well, you know, um, what I find interesting, um, when every now and then it gets, um, um, somewhere on, you know, with social media tweeted, the scale of weights that were in our day.

[00:11:23] Brent: Um, and when, you know, because. Um, like handicaps in those days, possibly even went down to as low as 45 kilos, um, weighing, you know, say in a Melbourne cup or a Caulfield cup when weights are released. And, uh, and, and so, you know, you're always riding, everyone was riding well under their normal, what was then the normal, um, weight.

[00:11:46] Brent: And you know, even, there's, um, something I had put on, on the whiteboard there at home and, and it had, um, Must have been, you know, one of the years that I was riding in, in Melbourne and, and it had um, uh, the [00:12:00] leading jockey's weights there and Roy Higgins was leading at the time and even, even then he was riding something like about.

[00:12:08] Brent: 55 and a half, 56 kilos were, you know, so, so hard to imagine when you see these people later on in life, you know, when, when, uh, finish what they're doing, doing best and, and um, you know, live a normal life. So nowadays the scale is obviously much higher because You know, the average person is a much bigger person through diet and all that sort of thing.

[00:12:31] Brent: And, you know, I think we lived a pretty ridiculous sort of, um, life, uh, in those days, but, you know, that was the way it was back then, probably in your... you did, you know, certain things there that they don't do, do in this day and age too, you know, um, and they all have the, you know, much more help in terms of, you know, whether that be, you know, um, uh, physiotherapies, um, um, you know, the whole board, uh, direction in life [00:13:00] and everything which has made a fantastic.

[00:13:02] Brent: Um, probably longevity, uh, if that's a word to, for the, for the average sports person. 

[00:13:08] Wayne: Would it be fair to say, given that we've got, uh, you and, you and gang over there, you might have, uh, you might have finished a ride on a Saturday Arvo and, and gone home and had a marinated lettuce leaf and, you know, and, and maybe little more behaved than the, the, your best mate sitting next to you.

[00:13:26] Wayne: You have told me, uh, before, Greg, about... You know, you could put on as much as nine kilos. And have to then lose that before the start of, well, whether it be, was midweek racing wasn't around really back then. It was. It was 

[00:13:41] Greg: but not as much. But it was basically, um, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturdays. 

[00:13:47] Wayne: So nine kilos from, from your last race on a weekend, you'd put that on and then you'd have to lose that before the next, uh, the next ride.

[00:13:55] Greg: Yeah, I'll just go back a step. When I was an apprentice Wayne for seven years, [00:14:00] um, it's, it's all changed now, but, um, so is everything in life, the same as football, but, um, is, um, I'd done a seven year apprenticeship and got five dollars a week and every second Sunday afternoon offer, but you still had to get up at three o'clock in the morning and I weighed nothing, you know, and, um, and then fast forward, As I got going, um, it took a long time to mature.

[00:14:24] Greg: I'm still not sure I'm there yet, but I'll get there one day. I'm not in a hurry. Challenge that. Yeah, yeah. I'm not in a hurry. I'm not in a hurry, babe. And, um, I, um, I actually, um, got to a stage like, uh, I started coming good when I was 30, unlike Brent when he was such a young kid, you know, he was a superstar and, uh, I started coming good then and um, but um, it was fair to say and um, the babe will agree with me here that um, you know, Saturday nights we'd always [00:15:00] go to um, the Silvers or um, Tock 8 or whatever and party pretty hard and then catch up, um, Sundays and then, um, and from 30 on I'd get on the scales Monday morning and, um, and I'm starting to climb Mount Everest, you know, this is before the Cup and that and, uh, And, um, I'll be 59 kilos and, um, by the next Saturday, through down at St Kilda's, Sauners, in those days you could have Lasix, you know, um, which were legal.

[00:15:33] Greg: Um, they're for pregnant women but they're a fluid tablet. And Geramine, which were legal. And, um, it was all above board and, uh, And then I'd go to the sauna on a Friday afternoon and stay there from midday to about six at night. And then, um... Stay at the sauna for that long? 

[00:15:52] Wayne: Not in. Not 

[00:15:52] Greg: in, but in and out. In and out, but I'd have blokes, big blokes like you, rubbing me down with salt and all that stuff.

[00:15:59] Greg: [00:16:00] And, um, then go home Friday night and I'd have a salada biscuit, but they come in fours and I'd just crack one quarter one. And I put half a poached egg on it, and, um... I'm starting to tear up, Jim. You're a bit lighter than I am. But then you had to have the energy. And then, um, said I'd have my car packed with my suit and everything, because I still had to get up at three o'clock.

[00:16:23] Greg: Saturday morning I'd ride to work and I'd take another elastic tablet because when you're riding it makes it work harder. And, um, and then, um, I'd have all my gear in the car and go straight from the track to St Kilda Bars. And I still might have a couple of kilos to get off and, um, and then I might be riding 50, 51, 52 that day, you know, so that went on for 20 years and, um, yeah, there's a lot behind the scenes and, um, it's, it's extraordinary, yeah.

[00:16:54] Wayne: Well, we spoke, uh, you spoke about how things have changed. Um, the whip, [00:17:00] uh, has been in the, has been in the news a lot about, you know, whether it's, you know, you know, the fact that In the Corfield Cup, so I'll lead you in. Nice. Why didn't you ever win a Corfield Cup, by the way? You won, you won everything else.

[00:17:13] Wayne: What, what, what happened there? Well, 

[00:17:14] Greg: a bloke, a, a bloke bloke said to me one night, he sort of, I don't think he, he was a real friendly bloke with me and I was doing a, uh, function and, um, he said, um, I think he was trying to take the mickey outta me. And, um. He said, Oh Greg, you're the only bloke to win the Darwin, Brisbane, Adelaide, Sydney, Melbourne Cup.

[00:17:40] Greg: He said, but you never won a Caulfield Cup. He said, what happened there? I said, mate, I was never interested in the suburbs.

[00:17:50] Greg: I led you in beautifully there. I forgot to tell him I won five Moonee Valley Cups. 

[00:17:55] Brent: That's an old chest. 

[00:17:56] Wayne: It is, it is. So the whip, and it has been in the [00:18:00] news because the Caulfield, uh, what happened in the Caulfield Cup. And we know why that it's, but is it a tokenism, is it, you know, given that you can win a race by breaking the WIP rules, you can still win a race and that race doesn't get taken off you, are the consequences enough for overusing the WIP now do you think?

[00:18:24] Wayne: And is, are the whip rules the reason? And I asked Damon Oliver this a little while ago, and he believes, like we have got just, we've got, you know, we've got a Melbourne Cup, you know, Michelle Payne's won a Melbourne Cup, and you know, we've got superstar women jockeys now. Is that because of the whip rule and not actually needing to, to be really strong on a horse like you, like, I guess, in your day?

[00:18:51] Wayne: I'd like 

[00:18:53] Greg: Brent's opinion on this first, because he wrote in England for many, many years, you know, and they've got different whip rules. [00:19:00] 

[00:19:00] Brent: I personally think, you know, that the... 

[00:19:02] Greg: Sorry mate, Brent wasn't a real, I mean he was the best writer, but he wasn't a real aggressive whip writer, sorry 

[00:19:11] Brent: mate. No, no, but I can look at old footage and I don't necessarily like what I see, but that was the style.

[00:19:19] Brent: Um, back in that, back in that day. Um, but when I went to England and rode for, what, seven seasons, call it, in England, you know, I, I adapted it, because I had to adapt to riding a different style, different, um, aggression, if you like, uh, or lack of it. And, um, But, um, I, I think the, the trouble that we have, um, Wayne and, and I think this should be addressed and maybe it's about to be addressed, that in, in order to get on top of it properly.

[00:19:57] Brent: All states must do the same. You [00:20:00] can't have one state do it their way and another. If you're going to appease, um, It's going to be universal. Yeah, you can only do it that way. And even if you call it in Australasia. Um, but if you, if you don't, if you don't, uh, all, all work in unison and, you know, one screen here sees a jockey hitting a horse 15 times and one you can only hit in the last half dozen, you know, uh, uh, uh, with a, with a sticks now, let's call them a crop.

[00:20:30] Brent: Um, and, and, and you've got. To count somehow if you're a jockey going, as you say, quite fast and trying to remember how many times you've hit a horse I would struggle to do that myself. I did fail maths at school Um, and uh, um You weren't alone Welcome to the club Fortunately better at something else 

[00:20:52] Greg: Jordan, 

[00:20:52] Brent: Jordan, Jordan Getting back to it, I think that's the whole crux of the matter If Victoria, New South Wales, Queensland, [00:21:00] Western Australia, South Australia, every state doesn't Um, uh, work under the same system.

[00:21:06] Brent: That's the only way that you can get it. Now whatever that, um, um, entails, you know, as we speak here, I couldn't say what, I couldn't quite say that. Is, unless I was a part of it, but I think that it, that it has to be addressed and it's probably, um, it needs to have certain changes. I'm not sure about, and I don't say how many times you can use the whip, because again it opens a Pandora box, whether you take a Caulfield cup off a horse or a Melbourne cup off a horse.

[00:21:41] Brent: God knows what the ramifications of that was, legalities and, you know, goes to court, someone says well that's not fair, you know, it's just a minefield actually. 

[00:21:50] Greg: But tell me this, I mean, as you know I was a very aggressive rider and we didn't let, we'd love our horses and we're not out there hurting them, make no [00:22:00] mistake of that Wayne, you know.

[00:22:01] Greg: Oh, I think, I agree with that. There was two guys. Myself and Mick Dittman, who was a legend and um, Um, were very aggressive riders and um, But I wanted to ask Brent is um, Is the question is, is, Is like, you know, I can go through several races where I've won by An inch or half an inch or whatever and um, And you've got to know what you're doing, being in rhythm.

[00:22:30] Greg: When I went on the Cox play on Sub Zero, um, sorry, Superimposed, um, you know, I hit him 42 times, you know, and, um, which is, you know, that's not, but we're in a rhythm together and he was responding. He'd come from second last and, um, and he got up in one by an inch and, um, now, If that, if, I don't know whether it would or not, but um, because [00:23:00] we haven't got a crystal ball, but I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't have won if he wasn't ridden that way, um, if the whip rule was in then.

[00:23:09] Greg: I was going to ask Brent, um. That, I mean, if they were thinking about taking the whips away altogether, well, that's impossible because they get broken in with a crop or a whip or whatever, but they don't hit them with them. But it's a tool, you know, to make sure his manners and all that, not just in a race, you know, whether it's track work or whatever, you're, come on mate, we're going across the gap or we're going out in the middle or whatever, and it's a tool that you must have.

[00:23:40] Greg: Because he's been brought up that way. Otherwise if it wasn't there, he can get away with too much and all that. And, um, I was going to ask Brent that, do you think, I do, just my opinion is, I think you can lift a horse over the line with the whip. Now the whip's completely different now. It's [00:24:00] padded and it doesn't hurt them and all that.

[00:24:02] Greg: But, um, do you think, babe, that, um, If there was no, no limit to how many times you could hit it like, um, Mark the other day in the Caulfield Cup, um, do you think if, um, if you weren't allowed to hit it or you're only allowed to hit it six times in the last hundred metres, And there's some horses that were, that, that, that respond to it.

[00:24:30] Greg: And there's some that don't. Yeah. And, and, and the horseman knows that Brent and I know that. Right. Whether it's a Philly, a lot of Phillies won't cop the whip and all that, you know? And, um, but do you think, Brent, that the horses that respond to it, that, that it's fair, that you can only hit it six times?

[00:24:48] Brent: Uh, it, it, it's a difficult one to an answer that, I mean, you know, you've got. It, it, where I find that a difficult one, I, [00:25:00] I, I get where you're leading to. Um, some, some horses respond to, um, being a bit more aggressive than, than others. You know, you mentioned fillies. You know, as, as a jockey, if you, sometimes you hit a, uh, use the stick one, one time and you could feel the horse.

[00:25:18] Brent: Fold underneath you, so therefore you're stopped immediately because, you know, it's not going to go forward. Um, but, I, I don't... I, I, I, I guess in this day and age from a, um, a aesthetic, um, or I struggle with that word, uh, point of view, we've got races being televised and watched all around the world, whether it's America, the Breeders, cup's just been run.

[00:25:41] Brent: Um, doesn't matter whether it's Zep and Derby, Royal Ascot, you know, Australia. Uh, it's everywhere. And so I, um, I think, um, as I say, when I watch Corfield cups and those sort of things where, where I, I. I was way more aggressive than what I was later. [00:26:00] I actually don't like that vision myself, but, you know, I, I changed my style because I rode into different parts of the world and therefore I conformed in those places.

[00:26:10] Brent: But I think we can, we can, I think Wayne, to answer the question in short, I think there has to be sort of some sort of, um, uh, I use the word conform, whatever, but a bit of balance. I, I'm not totally agree, agree with what you say. You can only hit it five times or ten times or whatever because you're always going to, someone's going to hit it once or twice more at the end of the day.

[00:26:38] Brent: You, that person, he or she fighting out a finish, a push comes and shove, they're gonna pop one more in. And, and therefore, if you're gonna lose a race because you're doing your best to, to win that for Wayne Carey. Mm-Hmm. So, um, and it's worth about $3 million. I mean, you're not really thinking that way at the time.

[00:26:56] Brent: Are you? You're thinking of actually winning the race. It's like you kicking the last point [00:27:00] in the, in the grand final, 

[00:27:01] Greg: you know, see, see I said to you the other day, Wayne, and think you're right that, um. I mean, for me, I probably wouldn't be able to do it, but um, he's, and Wayne was sort of, I was with Wayne a couple of days ago at a function I'd done for him and um, we had a good chat and um, he's, I would, and I think that Brent would agree with me here.

[00:27:30] Greg: Is, uh, you, you know, you're riding $8 million races or $10 million races these days and all, all that stuff. And, um, is the last thing I would imagine, or Brent can answer this for himself, is, um, now you get to the 200 and you, you already know the rules. Um, um, we, we, we all know the rules now, but the, the, the last thing on my mind would be.[00:28:00] 

[00:28:00] Greg: Now, so and so, uh, is um, I'm half a length off him, is the thought of thinking I could only hit this horse six times in the next hundred metres and I haven't got to the hundred metres yet. Is, well, that would be the last thing. No, there's 

[00:28:17] Wayne: a lot of stuff going through 

[00:28:18] Brent: your head. 

[00:28:19] Greg: Yeah. Calculations. Not, not, not, not so much a lot of stuff is, um, you've got the horse already ready to hit the line hard and all that.

[00:28:28] Greg: Well, the last thing on my mind is, I don't know if Brennan agrees or not, is, well, I know I can only hit it six times, but if I don't get it, if I don't get him going now. Well, I've got him warmed up and he's getting, going to the line harder and harder. Well, I wouldn't even contemplate about thinking about, um, well you wouldn't, you wouldn't think that, well you wouldn't count in your head that I've hit this horse.

[00:28:53] Greg: It's impossible. It's impossible to do. It's impossible to think about that way. Well 

[00:28:58] Brent: that answers, that answers my [00:29:00] question. Just, just to close on that, you know, it's not a case, it's not a case of, um, losing the race on a, you know, the objections through interference where, when it all costs. At the end of the day, you're just trying to coax that, that horse.

[00:29:13] Brent: But as I say, we can bang on here all afternoon about that one, but I think somewhere along the line it, it has to fit in with all states to get it right. 

[00:29:24] Wayne: What about, uh, best horse you've ever ridden? Both of you? 

[00:29:30] Greg: I would, be... 

[00:29:33] Brent: Dulcify, um, uh, And unlucky 

[00:29:36] Wayne: not to, uh, not to ride in the Melbourne Cup because he got injured, is that right?

[00:29:40] Wayne: Yes, 

[00:29:41] Brent: yeah, he, he broke his, uh, pelvis and didn't finish, but, um, I'm certain to this day that he would have won, he was better than them. He would have. Yeah, by, by a panel, but, um, uh, throughout my career, Wayne, I rode lots of good horses in lots of good places, but he, he sticks out. He sticks 

[00:29:57] Greg: out. Another Tommy, um.[00:30:00] 

[00:30:00] Greg: When he went on Gerner's Lane in the, uh, Corfield Cup, um, Brent used to come back from England and stay with me. And, um, and it was that situation that he was riding for Colin Hayes and, um, Gerner's Lane went back to back and won the Melbourne Cup at fil for Brent that he had to, he stayed with Jockey from Collins, so he had to take the ride and, and, um, the best horse I rode is

[00:30:28] Greg: I know he, I know how good Dulcifer was, like he was just an incredible horse, you know, and um, I'd put him, I wouldn't be frightened to back him against Kingston Town, he was that good, but um. Best horse I rode is, it's, it's very difficult for me to say because I only, I never padded the horse or sat on him or rode him track work or anything, and the statistics, you know, um, superimposed, wood in the cock's plate, well obviously he's a super horse.

[00:30:56] Greg: My favourite horse is Sub Zero, was he the best horse? No. [00:31:00] Um, But I did ride two outstanding horses and one got sold very young as a three year old called Zedative and, uh, he had 17 wins and got sold as a three year old. And, um, the gutter started and, um, He was a good sire, actually. Yeah, he was. He did well for a middle of the range horse.

[00:31:24] Greg: If he was around now, he'd get 30 or 40 million off one of the shakes or someone like that. But, um, he was a super horse and, uh, but probably the best horse I rode was, um, Mahogany. You know, he's, um, you know, he could never, ever, um, get a mile and a half and he won. Um, two major derbies. There's derbies and derbies without mentioning, um, stakes, right?

[00:31:50] Greg: But, um, there's two major derbies with Brent and I, both, one and both. It's, um, is, um, is the AJC derby, which is a serious [00:32:00] race, and the VRC derby. And, um, but, and he was never entered in another 2, 400 metre race, or back in our days a mile and a half race. after those derbies. No Caulfield Cup or anything.

[00:32:16] Greg: Well he went back and won 1, 

[00:32:18] Brent: 200 metres. 

[00:32:18] Greg: Yeah, well he won 2, 000 metres and he won 2 lightnings over 1, He won the guineas and he, um, he got beat a short half head in the um, Cox Plate. Cox Plate by 10 and a half kilos difference by a champion octagonal but um, Probably 

[00:32:38] Brent: out rode you that day. 

[00:32:41] Greg: Oh yeah, he sat three deep with no cover.

[00:32:43] Greg: I drew eleven when I was running fifth on the fence. Yeah, yeah, yeah, ask him, ask him, ask him, ask him, he'll tell you. What about, he rode that horse well in the Coolville Cup, he earned a cross.

[00:32:58] Greg: He got a hot dog on the [00:33:00] turn, he went that wide. 

[00:33:03] Wayne: Well that leads me beautifully, beautifully into this. So, I've got a horse over here called Ducks Deluxe. Now, clearly I haven't, clearly I haven't, but if I did, and you were to put a jockey on it, and you're the owners, who will you have riding for your life?

[00:33:24] Brent: In this, as we speak now, I mean, the man of the moment, and he's been that way for a while, is Jay MacDonald. He's taken all before him. Um, I've got him down as not being biased because he's a New Zealander. Um, but his record speaks for itself, Wayne. He's sensational. 

[00:33:43] Greg: Yeah, but would you agree, he's actually, he's outstanding, he's an outstanding.

[00:33:47] Greg: First time you agreed with him. Oh, turn it up, bloke.

[00:33:53] Greg: It's like, like a marriage, you know. Um, but, um, um, that's why he had three [00:34:00] wives. You didn't agree. I've got feelings. No, I'm joking. No, um, Jane Mack is, um, outstanding and he's a terrific bloke. He's a well mannered kid and, um, he speaks very well, but I don't know whether Brent agrees with this or not, but, um, you know, I was with Frankie DeTore, you know, I spent a lot of time with him for the past 20 years and, um, I remember one day we were overseas riding and they, the interviewer came up to him and they said, oh, Frankie, who was riding for Godolphin at the time, and they said, what makes you the best jockey?

[00:34:36] Greg: And he's Italian, broken accent, and he said, He said, um, he said, I get on the fastest horses. Now, um, I don't know if, I don't know if, I don't know if Brent agrees, agrees with this, but, um, is, Jay Mac's outstanding, there's no doubt about that. And, um, 

[00:34:55] Brent: But we're only talking present day here. Yeah, so D, D, D, 

[00:34:58] Greg: D Oliver, where does he?

[00:34:59] Greg: No, I, I was [00:35:00] just going to go into that Wayne, right? Yeah. But, um, he's, uh, this is nothing against Jay Mac. I love him. He's a beautiful kid, right? But when you've got a thousand horses or, or up to a thousand horses and you've got a bloke like Chris Waller behind you, he's, um, that probably makes life a little bit easier, you know?

[00:35:19] Greg: And besides, he can ride. Don't worry about that. Um, but, if I was, if, um, if I had a choice, I mean, either or, that wouldn't worry me. But, um, I would put Damien Oliver on. Does that make sense? 

[00:35:37] Brent: I, I think, you know, um, 

[00:35:39] Greg: Ollie's... Because experience can't buy youth. Yeah, but 

[00:35:43] Brent: Ollie's record is just nothing short of sensational.

[00:35:46] Brent: Um, but I thought we were only just talking about... Yeah. Ollie's on the way, uh, very close to the twilight because he signs off in, uh, back in the west, you know, which is a great, great, you know, finish where you [00:36:00] started from, fantastic. And, uh, and, um, I hope... Uh, that he wins a group one up there on his, on his way, way out.

[00:36:08] Brent: But, um, his career has been sensational. Um, and he's been great for the industry. And even just to see him, Wayne, just win a double on, if that's the only two races he wins over the carnival, I trust he'll win more. That, I mean, how fantastic is that? You know, he's still, still there banging away. Make, you know, he's still making, making headlines.

[00:36:28] Brent: And I mentioned 

[00:36:29] Wayne: before, we mentioned, uh, Michelle Payne, obviously winning a Melbourne Cup. Jamie Carr. A superstar, just that now the amount of female jockeys coming through. I mean, uh, it's a great site and, and all very, very good riders. 

[00:36:45] Brent: Yeah. And again, you know, it was nice to see, um, uh, Jamie day one, you know, she's just had a a, a detra detractors of, of late, she had an awful, um, spill that would knock [00:37:00] anyone's.

[00:37:00] Brent: Confidence and maybe, and she's possibly lucky to be back even now doing what, you know, like, I know she's back very, very fit and she's going good, but it does take a while, like in any form of, um, um, sport industry to get your confidence back, and that's a great morale booster for her, and, and, you know, you'd have to be blind to, not to see how well she rides, how great a balance, and I think her alone has been a wonderful, um, um, Um, someone, you know, the other females that are coming through, you know, she's sort of a pinnacle for them to, uh, to reach.

[00:37:39] Brent: And her career was just interrupted by that, but I'm sure she's back on top of things now. And, you know, there's lots of good girls riding around, I must say. Brent, 

[00:37:48] Greg: back in the day, um, I, I got a thing on, on my, on my iPhone, um, Ray Sulkridge and all the old jockeys, Kevin Lingby and that, and I, that, and um, it was interesting, I was [00:38:00] only reading it yesterday, someone sent, sent it to me, and all these fantastic broadcasters and, and, and jockeys, and, and the question come up about women riding, and the majority of the answers said, No, you, well they didn't say it in these words, they said, stick with your tea towel darlin you know, before dishwashers come in, you know, women's, it's, it's man's game, blah, blah, blah.

[00:38:22] Greg: Who said that? Um, I was, I can't, it's on my phone, I was in the 70s, right, yeah, and, um, I was going to say, that's 

[00:38:32] Brent: about, Is that when they had the yellow, the yellow line at the end? Cawfield, was it they, they women. 

[00:38:37] Greg: These were all Sydney. These were all Sydney, um, um, dockey and, um, journalists. And, uh, they all had their, some said about women and, um, and they, they all said no.

[00:38:50] Greg: Oh, basically, no, they wouldn't fit in and all that. But, um, and I text backers said, if only they knew today. But I was gonna ask Brent. Who was that [00:39:00] girl's name, Linda, um, um, Linda, um, from New Zealand? 

[00:39:05] Brent: Jones. Linda Jones? Yeah, she was one of doing it. 

[00:39:08] Greg: Yeah, well, Pam O'Neill and Linda Jones, right. They were the pioneers of, um, women jockey before you were born, Wayne Wright.

[00:39:17] Greg: And I was an apprentice, well, up in Queensland, and Pam, um, she got a licence and was all frowned upon. And she was very, very good at her superstar, and so was Linda Jones, and I rode up against them. And then it sort of went quiet with women. Nowadays, and getting back to Jamie, like I've been a bit hurt that um, she's been, well I wouldn't say criticised, but um, Probably has.

[00:39:50] Greg: Probably has, yeah, but um, um, yeah you're probably right, she, um, there's plenty of knockers out there. Yeah that's, everywhere else though. In this game, it's [00:40:00] easy to knock people down and um, and um, I was watching her rise and um, When you come back from those things, uh, she wasn't get, she wasn't getting on, you know, a full book of favorites when she first got back.

[00:40:15] Greg: And then people start getting suspicious and then scrutinizing and owners are saying, oh no, she's not right, or she's not going any good, and the media don't help. And, um, and I watched her ride in the, in the Geelong Cup and she was on the favorite and, um. And, Grant, me, um, Jay Mac or Damian Oliver couldn't have wrote it any better and um, the ambulance went past it and um, but to see her write a double on Saturday was fantastic and um, her ride in the last was very courageous, like there was no room where she was going and she took a gap only a certain, that wide and it wasn't for her ride, it wouldn't have won.

[00:40:59] Greg: But I do agree [00:41:00] this, with gills is, um, they've got beautiful hands and, um, and. They are part of the game and, um, you, I mean, look at Jamie, she, it's never been heard of winning over 100 races last year, you know, winning the premiership and uh, So, um, she is a superstar and, um, and it's very encouraging for other girls, you know, because, um, I just think that the, um, horses run well for them.

[00:41:30] Wayne: Well that's a great lead in, um, so this will be up this afternoon. Monday afternoon and we want, uh, Anton asked me to give a tip on the Melbourne Cup last week. Now, no one wants a dingbat like me giving a tip on a horse race, so I'm going to put you on the spot. You've got to give us a tip. Like I said, this will be up this afternoon.

[00:41:54] Wayne: So, when people listen to this or even, you know, if they tune in later in the week, [00:42:00] you're going to look like a genius. I 

[00:42:03] Greg: like it. Nothing's changed, mate. Yes, I 

[00:42:06] Wayne: know, I know. We always, by the way, X has been football. We always get asked to give our tips. Sure. We get asked to give tips. A week before the actual, um, games played and sometimes players are out on the ring or whatever.

[00:42:20] Wayne: So, at least this is the night, the day before. So just give us a, maybe a smokey or, or a, or one that you think, uh, It's a good 

[00:42:30] Brent: thing. Well, 

[00:42:32] Greg: first time. There's no such thing as a good thing. I 

[00:42:35] Brent: know. No. um, and I, um, I'm not a former student, Wayne, but I, I liked, um, the horse, the horse that won the Caulfield Cup.

[00:42:43] Brent: I liked him from last winter when he won in Queensland. I thought, wow, he's a Caulfield Cup horse for sure. Anyway, so he, he, he won, but I'm not calling myself any genius here. He, he, he won. I thought that the Hong Kong horse would win the Cox Plate. [00:43:00] Um, I haven't got a great view on the Irish horse. I don't mean that in the wrong sense of the term.

[00:43:09] Brent: He's just so short now, you know, it seems like you're coming in and just. What's the Irish horse's name? Vauban. Vauban. And he's, he's under, he's under four dollars now, but um, if you, if you go on what everyone sees or, or talks of, he probably wins the Melbourne Cup. You know, I still have a great respect for the, um, for last year's Melbourne Cup winner.

[00:43:33] Brent: Um, and ideally drew well, um, and, you know, we always know, no, no, no, no, um, a gold trip. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Uh, he, he obviously marked, uh, Zara. Do you think 

[00:43:45] Wayne: it was a good ride? It was a good ride, I thought. Yes. Last start. 

[00:43:49] Brent: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Tremendous ride. Yeah. Gave him every possible chance. He probably is just a bit stiff that Mark Zara knew, knew the horse so well.

[00:43:57] Brent: He just gave him a little bit of crowding, but [00:44:00] he, he ran his, uh, heart out. Um, Caulfield Cup for Morway stacks up in the Melbourne Cup. So, I think he's in there with a live, hell of a live chance. Um, one forgotten horse I thought, um, um, the, uh, because you just put me on the spot here, another, um, uh, Kieran Hors and Dave uses horse and he run fourth or fifth in the fifth in the, in the Caulfield cup.

[00:44:25] Brent: Um, um, God, sorry, I've got me on the spot, but I'm trying to get the feel . Um, yeah, it's all right. And, uh, who rides him? Um, Benny Allen rides him, I think. Um, I thought he, he might be a, an absolute smokey in the race 'cause he is down on the weights still. Um. Right to win. Right to win. Yep. So they're my three.

[00:44:48] Brent: Put it that way. I won't stand one out. Greg? 

[00:44:52] Greg: Yeah, I like the horse that won the Caulfield Cup. I haven't got the fields in front of me. Um, 

[00:44:59] Brent: what was [00:45:00] it? In his name always. Um. Anyway, let's call him Mark Zara's Ride. Yeah. Mark Z. 

[00:45:06] Greg: Mark Zara, an easy one. And um, now he's had to make a big decision on huge, um, huge, a huge decision.

[00:45:14] Greg: What's the other horse mate? 

[00:45:15] Brent: Gold trip. He had to get off a Melbourne Cup winner. 

[00:45:18] Greg: Yeah, well he won on Gold Trip the last year and ran the year before. A huge race in the Cox plate. Yeah. And he won't run a, he's, he's, um, now that's a, I mean, it sounds good to be in that position to have, um. The, the, the, the top two right choice, the top two choices.

[00:45:35] Greg: But it's not a good, it's not, no, no. You don't want to be in that position. Tough be because it touch wood for Marky. And one thing about Mark is though, at the moment is he's on fire, he's riding outstanding, you know, and he's a big race jockey and, um. He, um, knows what he's, he is a big race jockey and, um, [00:46:00] he's, but as Brent and I know only too well that we've been in the same position and, um.

[00:46:07] Greg: I tell you what, I'm not going to say nine times out of ten, but it's happened plenty of times. I've, I've, I've pulled the wrong rein and um, I'm sure Brent's been through the same thing. Oh, a hundred times. Yeah, a hundred times. And um, so it's a good position to be in, but it also can hurt too, but um, I, I'd like, I like that, um, um, those two and, because I don't think it's a, uh, a vintage Melbourne cup.

[00:46:36] Greg: And, um, Willie Mullen's horse. Yeah, that's Vauban, yeah. Vauban, and... 

[00:46:42] Brent: Well, he's got two runners in the race, but Vauban's a favourite. 

[00:46:45] Greg: Yeah, yeah. And, um, I didn't know I actually went over the jumps that horse, actually. But, um, but apparently he's a, a, a... Very serious horse, and um, Now that horse, I can't think of its name either, Brent of Chris Waller's, that, uh, [00:47:00] Misses the kick, and um, That Craig Williams rode, and um, Last start in the Caulfield Cup.

[00:47:05] Greg: Joe Marrera's, um, He's on fire, he's, uh, Rode twelve winners in the last ten days, And, uh, he's coming out here, They call him, I forget his nickname now. Magic Man. Magic Man, yeah. Um, anyway, uh, he's... Do you remember his name, 

[00:47:25] Brent: babe? No. It starts, starts with S. Yeah. Anyway, people can follow it. They only have to look up Turn.

[00:47:31] Brent: Yeah, yeah, yeah. See Wall, see? Yeah, 

[00:47:33] Greg: see, see. Waller and, um, Jo Joe Marra, if he jumps his horse, um, he's got a bad habit of missing the kick. And, um, if he jumps outta the barriers, I think he's got a serious hope. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, is any chances 

[00:47:48] Wayne: at short notice. Thanks for coming in and having a chat on the truthverts.

[00:47:53] Wayne: And for anyone that wants to, uh, obviously follow that, they only have to look at the trainers and who's riding it to see who we were [00:48:00] talking about. Sorry for putting you on the spot. I probably should have, given you information. Oh yeah, but it happens to us all. We should have brought the full report.

[00:48:07] Wayne: Fascinating. Fascinating. And like I said, the utmost respect for what you boys, uh, uh, did, have done. Um, absolute legends, uh, in the sport. Um, the, the, the, actually I did want to touch quickly. Um, and I did say, and we'll finish on this because I, I think that. You know, I've got, I've got some mates that have won a Brownlow medal.

[00:48:30] Wayne: I've never won a Brownlow medal, I don't know whether you know that favoured five times. And I'm not, and I'm not bitter, but if you win a, if you win a Brownlow medal, you get an invite to every Brownlow medal thereafter. So you, you're an honorary member. If you play over 300 games, you get two tickets to.

[00:48:50] Wayne: Every football game, grand final, boxing day, you become an AFL life member. So there's all these perks for, for doing a lot in one's [00:49:00] sport. And I just happened to be talking to the, to your great mate sitting next to you the other day and cannot believe that as a Melbourne Cup winning jockey does not get invited to the Melbourne Cup.

[00:49:14] Wayne: That is an absolute disgrace. 

[00:49:18] Brent: It's staggering when you think it, isn't it? It is. How many, 

[00:49:20] Wayne: how many Melbourne Cups? What winning jockeys are there? There's 

[00:49:23] Greg: a hundred and forty four, and, and, uh, So they would only 

[00:49:26] Wayne: have to give out, and I assume there's a, there's a few of those to the, yes, 

[00:49:30] Greg: I'm God blessing, With the Angels.

[00:49:32] Greg: Well there's at least fifty percent have died. Well 

[00:49:34] Wayne: that's, yeah, so, so, that is just astounding to think that you do not get invited to the Melbourne Cup and you've won it. Won the race. I don't, 

[00:49:43] Greg: it's a terrible, you know, it's hard for me to talk about, but I'd like babe's opinion on, on, on this that, um, I mean, I don't go to the races that often, but one would've thought that, um, if you won a Melbourne Cup, no, that's why that's, it'd been an [00:50:00] automatic ticket, ludicrous to go anywhere.

[00:50:02] Greg: But, um, it doesn't work like that. I have to ring up. They have to, I have to ring up. They have to correct that. 

[00:50:07] Brent: Yeah, I mean, when you think about it, like, I know, I don't know the full nuts and bolts of the AFL, but, you know, what you just said, and I know some, some of, but I, I totally agree with you, like, you know, at the end of the day, you've got, um, only X amount of jockeys that are still alive that are alive.

[00:50:26] Brent: Yeah. Melbourne Cup winners. It, it, it sends us in it, not to, even if it's an invitation for the one day. Well that, well 

[00:50:34] Wayne: that's, that's it for the Melbourne, that's what I mean. At least, at the very least, you should be going to the Melbourne Cup with a ticket and a, and, and a partner if you want to take a partner.

[00:50:45] Wayne: Yeah, sure. And, and that should be it for the rest of your life. It's 

[00:50:49] Greg: pretty simple. I think you should get live membership. I mean, not that you go every day or whatever, but, and it's not just about the Melbourne Cup, you may not even go, but it should be... Well, to go back 

[00:50:59] Wayne: [00:51:00] to, you know, other sports and, and, you know, obviously I know football well...

[00:51:02] Wayne: Cricket would be the same, I imagine. Well, yeah, well, yeah, you know, you, you, you win a premiership, even if you, you know, you win a premiership, you become, a lot of football clubs, you become an automatic life member, whether you've... Doesn't matter how many games you've played, so... There's a lot to be said about that, and that has to be corrected in my opinion, and you know what, when the truth hurts, we'll, uh, we'll make sure that, uh, you know, we get that out there for you, Greg.

[00:51:25] Wayne: So next year, let's hope that they change that. And all others. And all, well, all others, it's the same. If you win, if you've won a Cox Plate, well, guess what? You go to the, if you're, you, you, you get an invite to the Cox Plate every year. It's not, it's not. It's not a puzzle. It's not that 

[00:51:39] Greg: hard to correct. I will say this about the Moonee Valley Jockey Club, um, when I retired or whenever I was unconscious seven times and all that through race falls, um, they are a beautiful club and they, um, they, um, gave me, um, life membership the day I, um, the day I [00:52:00] retired and, um, which I'm very grateful for and, um, So, um, easy to 

[00:52:08] Wayne: correct, easy one to correct.

[00:52:09] Wayne: Good way. What about the mask? Good way to finish. Well, you know what? Well, we will do, we will talk about, um, we can, I can sit here and talk to you guys all day. Yeah. We've only got a certain amount of time. Greg, and, and, and seriously, uh, you've, he's, great story, I've obviously, uh, had the privilege of, of meeting this great man, and, and, you know, still today, um, you know, gets up every day as he's battles, but he's just such a beautiful, humble.

[00:52:38] Wayne: Gorgeous man, and, uh, and, and, you know, to come from where he's come from, to do what he's done. I know you two are great mates, and I see the, uh, affection, um, I see the affection there. He 

[00:52:49] Brent: can annoy me sometimes. Oh, 

[00:52:51] Wayne: well that's all good mates, all good mates, uh, can annoy one another, but thanks again. And I know that, uh, well I know through the GBS [00:53:00] obviously, uh, Are you a G are you in the GBS by the way, Brent?

[00:53:03] Wayne: I've been, I've been, certainly have been, yeah. We're going to have to get you, uh, get you involved in the GBS. But, uh, this man's a great ambassador for them and does so many great things around men's health. Um, and the, the conversations that, uh, that he has, I know, and I've seen, uh, grown men cry when he, when he tells his story.

[00:53:23] Wayne: So get along to a GBS event and listen to this man's whole story. We haven't got the time to tell it, but it is a great one. Thanks gentlemen. 

[00:53:32] Greg: Babe can be a bit frustrating too, but I, but I still love him. We love each other. But only boys. 

[00:53:39] Brent: See ya pal. See ya pal.