Season 1 - EP#41 - JUSTIN LEPPITSCH

Season 1 - EP#41 - JUSTIN LEPPITSCH

Justin Leppitsch, Duck and Wool talk about his career in playing and coaching across the years.

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Transcript

Episode #41 - Justin Leppitsch 

[00:00:00] Ayrton: Well the truth hurts, a special guest this week, Duck, a very special guest, in fact he's come fresh from some big celebrations, he's had a bit of a Midas touch this 

[00:00:08] Wayne: man. He's come in with a bit of a swagger, none other than just a leppich, leppa.

[00:00:13] Justin: Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming on. I know it's been a bit of time in the making. I know it was said about six months ago I'd come on. Yeah, 

[00:00:18] Wayne: the truth hurts, mate. So, you know what? And it does sometimes. Uh, so you've, you know, you've, you've become, you're swaggered in here. You always had a bit of, you always had a bit of swagger.

[00:00:31] Wayne: Um, actually we'll go back because we played a lot of our careers against one another. Yep. You started at the Bears when they were, Not so good average and and but you know What a what a career ended up being a three time premiership player and all that but sort of take us back to when you played for the Bears and how tough it was to go to a club that, uh, I guess, you know, was, was really 

[00:00:55] Justin: battling.

[00:00:56] Justin: It's funny, my daughter actually asked me that question this [00:01:00] morning. We've got daughters the same age, both graduating, um, about, about now. 

[00:01:02] Wayne: First Kerry, hey, first Kerry ever to pass Year 12. 

[00:01:06] Justin: That's amazing. 98. 1, and I said to my wife, I said, we're gonna have to check the, uh, DNA how that's happening, but, um.

[00:01:15] Justin: Anyway, digressing, but she said to me, you know, so what happened with your career, she asked me and I said, well, 12 in Queensland because she's asking where I graduated. So that was, you got recruited a year younger. So I'm a 17th birthday on the 1st of October and the draft is a few weeks later. So, um, and then flying up to Brisbane, I think the first contract back then was like seven and a half thousand bucks and you're really thrown into the deep end.

[00:01:39] Justin: Um, so it was a difficult start. Uh, and then I did my knee about six weeks into the season. So. You're right, I'd never played against men before. Bunch of boys, you know, obviously had a good junior career. And you're jumping up 3, 4, 5 levels straight to playing against men. So that was a massive challenge.

[00:01:57] Justin: And like any young key [00:02:00] forward or key defender, you're not really a good player until you get your body at a decent size. So yeah, a tough few years early. And that was about the same time you started dominating, was the time I was recruited. He's still a few years ahead of me mate, four or five maybe. 

[00:02:14] Wayne: Now I know Anton, and you'll get into the nitty gritty sort of stuff.

[00:02:19] Wayne: He's the hard hitting question man. 

[00:02:21] Justin: See those shoulders aren't moving 

[00:02:22] Wayne: well still. Well I just had a shoulder replacement. Oh did you? I did, how's it going? Yeah, so I'm four weeks out. So starting to, starting to warm up to it. But, so you defender forward, you sort of flip flopped from one position. To the other.

[00:02:35] Wayne: How, what, what were you when you were a junior? You probably played 

[00:02:37] Justin: midfield. I was a ruck. Yeah. I was, I was the tallest kid at 15 and mid-pack by about 16. Um, so I grew pretty large early, and so I was sort of that kick behind the ball defender is what you did as a, as a young ruck. So that's probably why defense ended up suiting me, because that's where I ended up.

[00:02:54] Justin: But forward was really, you know, I played it a little bit in the under eighteens, but just started doing it. Um, when I first [00:03:00] started the AFL, but um, but yeah, I probably didn't know what my position was because as I said, I was a ruck pretty much my whole junior career and it took a while to work out what it was.

[00:03:08] Ayrton: So Lepa, 96 Brisbane had a, you know, decent run at finals but couldn't quite make the granny. It wasn't until much later you, you had the success there. What changed when someone like Lee Matthews walked in the door at that footy club in terms of, you know, standards or the way you went about 

[00:03:23] Justin: things? I think it was always a combination of things.

[00:03:26] Justin: It probably stems back to we were the first team also to get a lot of, um, I guess early picks in the draft and, uh, compensation picks and things like that. Brisbane had picks 2, 4 and 6. Imagine doing that nowadays. The competition would lose their brain. And Sydney had 1, 3 and 5. Um, so that's how much they'll...

[00:03:44] Justin: Well, who was that? That was 92 National Draft. So that, that's how much they'll try to look after those two clubs because how poorly they were, they were going. So, um... Yeah, and the night before the draft, I was, Brisbane were coming around and I was like, Oh, Robert Walls is coming around, sorry, Scott Clayton's coming around, [00:04:00] open the door, it's Robert Walls, it's 9.

[00:04:01] Justin: 30 at night before the draft, and he said, well we're taking you at pick 4 tomorrow, and I was like, oh god, I was gutted a But yeah, and then that's how that started, but we went from Walsy being the, uh, he's like the headmaster type coach, um, So, you know, I was, you know, with a stick, whacking you sort of thing.

[00:04:19] Justin: Then we had John Northey, and, and 96 is when John got there, and going from Walsy in 95. coaching, yeah? Through to John Norley, which is like your granddad coaching, yeah? I'll never forget the first, one of the first nights I lived with Nathan Chapman and Trent Bartlett, and we lived in the same area in Kenmore.

[00:04:36] Justin: We went around to Swooper's house, he asked us around, and we're just sitting there having a barbecue, and he goes, he puts a VB in front of us, that was myself, the three boys, and I go, OK. We were halfway through the beer and he's put another one down. I'm thinking, holy shit, had to get rid of the first one, start the next one, and then, lo and behold, he's done it again.

[00:04:56] Justin: Trent Barlett's still got one and a half beers sitting there. He's like, I can't keep up, I'm pissed [00:05:00] already. So, that was the intro to Swoop. It was like that, it was like your granddad coaching you. So, um, which is a great breath of fresh air for the group. So, I think that's what, half of it was what started that kickstart in 96.

[00:05:12] Justin: It's just that, that freedom, um, going from one, Sort of headmaster coach to another but it wasn't long standing I think you need a balance of all of that and I think Lee brought that when he eventually got there three years later Well, you 

[00:05:23] Wayne: played in a preliminary final that year. That's right. Yeah, I do in in the prelim You had some obviously superstars in that time and it was the year after that you then can pick any Fitzroy player that you want because remember the Fitzroy Obviously folded and you have the choice of that.

[00:05:41] Wayne: Is there any fear? And, and we spoke about this on my, uh, podcast, um, earlier in the week. Is there any, was there any trepidation with you guys that were already at the club, knowing that they had a choice from anyone that they wanted at Fitzroy? Do you start worrying about your 

[00:05:59] Justin: [00:06:00] position? Um, yeah, we finished, because we finished third that year, and we're playing the last game of the year against Cologne to finish on top of the ladder, and we actually lost that game.

[00:06:08] Justin: Um, so we could have finished the top in 96 and that would have been a bit like an early Premiership probably because we were a bit too young and inexperienced. But Fitroof were dead last by a fair bit so I think most of us were thinking they're not taking our spot. We were probably a bit ahead of ourselves a little bit.

[00:06:23] Justin: Um, there wasn't a lot of great talent to come out of that. Brad Boyd was the captain, he was, but he got injured for the most of the next two seasons. But we got Chris Johnson as a young player. Uh, Jared Malloy who ended up being Mel Michael in a trade. Um, but, and then the rest sort of, you know, probably the next best one we got later was Pikey.

[00:06:43] Justin: You know, we could have got him at the start. We groomed him. Yeah, you groomed him. Did you, did you teach him all that stuff? Yeah, 

[00:06:50] Wayne: I might have groomed him too well in a few areas. But, well, he, he was a great pickup, 

[00:06:54] Justin: wasn't he? Oh yeah, he was a, he's a sensational man. But the other one was Matthew Promis. He did, we didn't pick up.

[00:06:59] Justin: He [00:07:00] was probably the next of the best of that, that, that three or four there. So, um, we didn't get a heap out of that part of it. But, um, it does help though, doesn't it? You sometimes only need one or two plays to help, you know, take you to that next level. 

[00:07:12] Ayrton: You're known as a really uncompromising team in your successful years.

[00:07:16] Ayrton: But when did you start to realise that you had the, you know, a more special group? Because you mentioned you had the younger draft picks, but that doesn't always guarantee success. And then it felt like that Brisbane team was a, was a... It was a, it was a bruising team, it was a, uh, a competitive team and, and when did you sort of realise that that could play into your, into your strengths 

[00:07:35] as 

[00:07:35] Justin: well?

[00:07:36] Justin: We probably played an era that it was still an, again it's playing against Wayne's team so you probably remember the best teams of your era growing through, so the Kangaroos were part of that. It was the tail end of, I guess, West Coast, um, in the early. Carlton were up there for a bit, so we had a few, um, you know, counters against men, big men, that, um, used to bash around a fair bit at that age, and we wanted to pass it on.

[00:07:59] Justin: And I think [00:08:00] that, that was really it, we knew once Duck's shoulders started falling off and, you know, the, you know, Steve Kernahan's out of the game now, and all these guys are sort of, you know, by the wayside, it's like, hey, this is our turn now. We're, we're, we're through now, we're in our mid twenties, we're ready to go, we've had some hardships in finals, and, and, and we're right to go.

[00:08:17] Justin: Whilst it wasn't said, and now we've got the coach as well to take us there, um, I think there was a bit of an underlying belief there. It is a great 

[00:08:25] Wayne: example, and we've spoken about it a lot over the weeks. If you go back through the history, and there's been a lot said in recent times, Stephen May saying they were the best.

[00:08:35] Wayne: And look, the best team doesn't always win. We know 99 games littered Essendon were the best team. 99, 2000, 2001. They got one flag out of that. You obviously beat them in 2001. I think they limped in a bit that year. Like you said, you were primed, ready to go. And you knock off this all powerful team that won in 2000.

[00:08:58] Wayne: Where do you rate [00:09:00] that team? And you look at Essendon and everyone likes to rate, you know, and like you said, that era, we were strong. You're obviously in the 2000s. Essendon, right at the end and early 2000. In my opinion, your team's the best team. ever to play the game of AFL footy. I think that team would beat any other team ever to play.

[00:09:20] Wayne: And that includes the Hawthorn of the 80s, and it includes Carlton of 95, and Essendon of 2000. I just think because... Did he 

[00:09:27] Justin: say North Melbourne in there? I don't think he picked it up. No. And us. That means I don't have to play, do you? I do 

[00:09:33] Wayne: think... Well, we did play on one another... One game, and I kicked five and he kicked four.

[00:09:39] Wayne: I heard he was a set off bat. So, um, Just playing my role. Yeah. Um, so, how do you rate that? How do you rate that team for one? And do you agree? Do you think, you know, you, you guys were the, uh, the best team? 

[00:09:54] Justin: Yeah, I think pound for pound talent wise. Yeah, we had, um, Yeah, we had the best talent [00:10:00] across the board.

[00:10:00] Justin: Like, often when you do these teams and you match them all up, you know, you'd probably say we'd have 14 positions and the other team might have 8. You know, you tend to do that when you're comparing the teams over. So we just had a great depth of talent. We had a great DNA too. I still think it's probably the...

[00:10:16] Justin: the era of footy where people enjoyed the fast pace of it too and the collision and the hits, it's sort of, the game probably lost its way for about a 10 or 15 year period there, it become really strategic and dour and hopefully, teams like the Pires are changing that a little bit and we're starting to see a little bit more free flowing footy again too, so um, Yeah, who knows, maybe if Clarko coached eight years earlier, he might have put the clamps on us and done other things and changed the game and made it harder for us, but um, I just think pound for pound, um, it was the, I think the best team overall on paper, that's for sure.

[00:10:49] Ayrton: So what he's saying is, do you get pissed off when people say, oh, this team would have 2000s? Is there a level of pride still there that thinks, oh, we would have... We would have bashed these guys off. Oh [00:11:00] really? 

[00:11:00] Justin: Because you've got to be old enough to remember. Like, you think a 21 year old kid, he doesn't know who I am.

[00:11:04] Justin: Like, you know, I'll get, you know, parents go, I can't have a picture with Lepa, some little kid. I'm going, the poor kid's got no idea who I am. He's looking at me, he's looking at me in his face, like, why? It's all for the parents. It's all for the parents. I said, I think this is for mum and dad, not for you, don't worry about it.

[00:11:17] Justin: Because, yeah, because you've got to How we played and why we played, and a lot of people don't look back on history, um, and watch old games anymore, um, so, yeah. So, guys our age can have that comparison, but guys at 30 years of age, they'd have no idea. So 

[00:11:31] Wayne: you finish your playing career, decorated, end up being a three time Premiership player, and then you decide that, uh, you want to coach.

[00:11:39] Justin: What were you thinking? I wanted to, no. I actually had a year and a half of contract to go, and um, It was actually my daughter's first birthday, my eldest, who's now 19. And I woke up the next day at about 6am in the morning and my back just completely spasmed. And I had this feeling down my leg, I just couldn't feel anything.

[00:11:58] Justin: And um, it [00:12:00] was like I was lying in bed and I said to my wife, I can't get up. And it was the strangest feeling, and I was thinking, oh God, what's this? This is mid year, um, 2005. Um, up until that I was feeling pretty good, I'd had back issues in the past, but um, cut a long story short, I'd actually done a lot of nerve damage, um, which affected my lower leg, my calf in particular, which still affects me today, but I couldn't really, uh, I ended up having the surgery about 12 weeks later, but I couldn't get back.

[00:12:29] Justin: again. So about four games into the following year, I tried to play, um, and wasn't going that well. Um, the media would give me some good feedback on my, uh, first few games and then Lee ended up dropping me and I was thinking, oh, well, this, this is actually a bit more serious than I think. Cause you can't see yourself playing particularly when you've got an injury like that, where it's more of a limp.

[00:12:49] Justin: Um, yeah. You don't feel the pain in it, but it's just not working properly. It was a strange injury to have. And, um, and then I thought, geez, when I spoke to the surgeon, he said, these things can take two or [00:13:00] three years. And I was. 30 bordering on 31, I'm thinking, well what's it doing, 18 months rehab, then I'm out of contract at 32, and so it came at me pretty hard, and Lee said, look, I want you to be a part of our coaching team, and I want, so, realistically, that is how it happened at the end, I still thought I had two years of footy to go, in my brain, um, but it's sort of, as Lee said to me, he said, don't stress, you're just missing those years where all the people that you used to beat, you used to beat, start beating you now, so, um, He said, you're not missing that much, so, um, but yeah, so I was 30 at the time when it happened, so, um, a little unexpected, so that's how I fell into coaching a little bit, um, and then it sort of grew 

[00:13:35] Wayne: from there.

[00:13:36] Wayne: Well, you mentioned Lee, so quickly clarify the famous or infamous story. In the lift story? About in the lift. Run us through the story and how much, how much, how much 

[00:13:47] Justin: truth is, uh. Oh, there's a bit of truth there, mind you. Acker tried to claim it as his story at one point. Oh, of course he did. But we're in a, we're in a lift.

[00:13:53] Justin: Geez, Acker did well in 

[00:13:54] Wayne: the SAS

[00:13:59] Justin: thing, didn't he? [00:14:00] What did you think? He was, uh. 

[00:14:01] Ayrton: So he's got his payment, obviously. He's got his payment and then 

[00:14:04] Wayne: he's. Well, yeah. What do I think? I thought it was very Acker 

[00:14:08] Justin: like. Yeah, well, yeah, well, a little bit was it? I actually missed it because all I got the message is... He lasted half a day. I got the message from my old Acker's on SAS.

[00:14:16] Justin: I sort of heard that and then 20 minutes later got a message, he's out already. 

[00:14:20] Wayne: Well, he, uh, he's... He said he hurt his foot, but what he forgets is they had vision of him sprinting, sprinting uh, at the end of one particular exercise that they had to do. And they said, well, you weren't limping there. And then he comes back into the dorm and, or the barracks.

[00:14:39] Wayne: And they said, uh, well, you know, you, he had his boot off, there was no swelling and he started limping around the joint. 

[00:14:45] Justin: I'm going to have to give him up here because. The boys will give you a bit of stick in the players app, the old, the old, um, Brisbane Lions players app, because we had the reunion this year as well.

[00:14:55] Justin: And, uh, and everyone was started, uh, was that gout last night, brother? That [00:15:00] was the start of it. And it, that's Morton's new Roma, he said. So, uh, Pricks missed that on the edits. Now everyone is saying I faked it, happy to be out of there, but... So that's, that was his, and then he goes on, like he, and, and... Martin Pike, your mate, Blackie's still our number one reality TV star, so this, this, this thing keeps, keeps going and you get any calls and pricks the way they looked after him.

[00:15:25] Justin: Anyway, it was worth the money. So you're on the part there with Akka. And then, um, and then somehow he blamed me, um, down the end of it because, uh, Uh, something I did because I did it because of Lewis Taylor's boots. I wore when Lepper was coaching the Lions and he made me do this commercial. So it became my fault from boots.

[00:15:41] Justin: He wore from Lewis Taylor eight years ago. So there you go. 

[00:15:45] Wayne: He's a ripper. So yeah, go through. Sorry. Yeah. You almost got out of town on that story 

[00:15:49] Ayrton: then. 

[00:15:49] Justin: Oh, it was unreal. I'm sorry. Where were we? Lee Matthews. Oh, the lift. Yeah. So we, um, yeah, we're in the lift. And, um, and Lee's actually quite a quick fellow.

[00:15:57] Justin: You work with him, but. When you, [00:16:00] you throw a few little things at Lee and he actually has his sort of underlying ego because, you know, no one ever says anything wrong to Lee Matthews yet. So, um, yeah, we're in the lift and we're on the way up. And it was just dead silence for a second, which is quite weird.

[00:16:12] Justin: There was probably about 10 or 15 of us in this, um, sort of commercial lift. And then I just said to him, um, Well, you'd be nothing without us. And, and just, I just, right out there. And got a bit of a chuckle, a bit like now. And he goes, Hmm. He does. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I'd only be a player of the century.

[00:16:31] Justin: LAUGHS So, and that got a bigger laugh, of course, cause um, but he was very quick like that. He's, he's, he's very good at that stuff. Do you, 

[00:16:40] Ayrton: do you still see much of Lee now? Was he at the reunion, for instance? Yeah. And, and, uh, and how does that go with that group now? Cause Akko's obviously part of that, like this, these guys have, you've all branched off in different directions, but how do you go when you, when you meet your, your teammates now, 20 years on?

[00:16:54] Justin: It's awesome, actually. Like, we, we've done it now a couple of years You know, it's, it's 20 year reunion now, [00:17:00] 19 last, or 20 for the previous year and so on and so forth, so, um, it's actually awesome, I find 20 years is a great, um, I don't know, it's different. Ten years, some of us are still in the game, we're still competitive, we're still, you know, as you get to this stage of your life, you know, it's an era ago since you hung out with each other and I think you've become closer and better friends in a way, um, because you've all got different lives and different things and you go there to celebrate something you did that was awesome in your life and, um, not many people get to do that and Pikey's actually one that's driven a lot of this.

[00:17:32] Justin: You To be honest, so, um, he's awesome. That doesn't 

[00:17:34] Wayne: surprise me. Pied could do anything. The great thing about that is, so when you have your 25 year one, you get three years in 

[00:17:40] Justin: a row. That's right. Yeah. Awesome. is this year, Collingwood, I had to go from one party to the other for a little bit, which people said, I actually said to them, if you had of, Collingwood had a start at more 2004, 5, 6, that would have been helpful, then I can go straight into Richmond at 7 and I'm almost hopeful, that would have been nice to do that, but [00:18:00] um, But yeah, so it's uh, yeah, good problem there, but it's great catching up, I think we're going to do it every year now, I don't think it's going to be just exclusive to the, to the premierships, because it's about the only time you get to catch up with your old mates again.

[00:18:10] Justin: So 

[00:18:11] you 

[00:18:11] Ayrton: obviously, you moved into coaching, which you've spoken about, you're at Brisbane initially, then you went to Richmond, uh, at that stage, and so what was the, what was the outlook at the Tigers when you first went there versus second 

[00:18:22] Justin: time? Well, the first time it was, you know, we were there for a longer play.

[00:18:26] Justin: I don't think we won a game for the first nine games or something like that. Yeah, which is interesting. It was like, you know, everyone was on the patience bandwagon. I think that was pretty big back then. Everyone was pretty in. I think we're a bit more impatient now as in 2023 than what we were in 2010.

[00:18:43] Justin: I think we're happy, oh, our team's going to be poor for two or three years. It's sort of not a trend at the moment. Like, it's like, come on Hawthorne, hurry up. in the game nowadays. Everyone's trying to trade to get better quicker. So, yeah, so those things are always evolving. The first three years were, um, yeah, [00:19:00] really much on the build of it.

[00:19:01] Justin: I think we played finals the last year I was there in 13. Um, and the second time around was different because I just got sacked from the Lions and Dimmu was under the pump, he nearly got the boot as well. And there was a fair bit of urgency around winning. Um, so it was a very different mechanic the second time around.

[00:19:18] Justin: And 

[00:19:18] Wayne: weren't you the Ford's coach when you, when I first went back there, yeah. So, and then they invariably win the Premiership. You've only got, given, because there's a lot of talk about how Richmond evolved their Ford line. And you only had one key Ford. I mean you had Jack Riewoldt, I think Vickery might have been...

[00:19:37] Wayne: He was 

[00:19:37] Justin: out. He was out. Yeah, it was only Jack really. Yep, so... Ben Griffiths actually got injured in the pre season and never played throughout the year. So you've 

[00:19:44] Wayne: got one tall and then you've got all these small forwards, quick small forwards, pressure forwards. Um... Is it, was it more of just an evolution and you fell upon this game plan or did you play a bigger role in that?

[00:19:58] Wayne: Clearly you need, [00:20:00] the one key for it, you need to be ultra competitive. 

[00:20:04] Justin: Um, it was an interesting one. Um, when I was coaching the Lions the year before, One issue, which was many, don't worry, and all this stuff that we're going through with a lot of kids, but I didn't have any pressure in the front half of the ground.

[00:20:17] Justin: And it's, it's one thing I wanted to create but couldn't do, mainly through personnel. Um, and I got to Richmond and thought, Hey, what's this? And I didn't know Dan Butler from Ibarra Soap, I didn't know Jason Costagna from Ibarra Soap, and we're out there training, and God, these guys can really put pressure on.

[00:20:33] Justin: And I was always thinking, this is the way we've got to go. We've got to go one way or another. You've got to keep the ball down there. Um, so, Jack had to get him thinking, Hey, you don't have to mark every ball, first and foremost, because if you bring it to ground, it will create, create some, a swarm of pressure.

[00:20:46] Ayrton: And there is a bit, there's a bit of ego with Jack. So, just, how, how do you have that conversation with a Jack Riewoldt type player who's winning Coleman medals and, and you've got to get him thinking more about that side of the game? 

[00:20:59] Justin: [00:21:00] Well, it was easy, you know what, sometimes it's when you get someone in their career.

[00:21:03] Justin: I'll never forget having a meeting with Jack, and he may not remember this when I first got there, and he said, Oh, well, we're not saying we're stuffed now, you guys have got this young forward line, and I'm just here for the future of these kids, and you know, it was almost like he was writing his obituary, you know, to me, and I said, mate, it doesn't have to be that way, you know, so he was at a time where he was just, would have done anything for team success.

[00:21:24] Justin: Um, clearly he wouldn't have known we were going to win a flag 12 months later, the way he was speaking at that point in time. But, um, I just said to him, I said, Jack, you know what, if you just bring the ball to ground and lead these boys, I'll be happy. I'm not going to tell you how to play. You know how to play forward, I don't.

[00:21:37] Justin: Um, but lead them. And I said, and they're the two things I'll, I'll, judge you on, whether you compete in the air and whether you lead these boys well. Other than that, that's, that's all yours. It's your forward line and, um, you drive it cause you've got the experience and you have to empower the boys out there cause you're not out, we overrate what we can influence on game day, that your preparation, how you can influence on a coach is [00:22:00] actually done in.

[00:22:00] Justin: December and January and February and what you've set them up to do and set them up to be leaders and then, and then you can add your little spices over the top, but um, it's very hard to, to run the game from a coach's box, particularly nowadays when there's a runner with limited rotations and you, you just can't do 

[00:22:17] Wayne: it.

[00:22:17] Wayne: The other one that, uh, changed his game a fair bit was Trent Cotchen. Um, you know, ends up being a three time Premiership captain. Unbelievable player. Went from winning, you know, a Brownlow, albeit not his. Um, but winning B& Fs and everything else. And, you know, having 30, 35 possessions to a 20, 25. But just a, just a combative captain style game.

[00:22:42] Wayne: Those two in particular, and I know it's been spoken about a lot, but, um, The transformation, 

[00:22:48] Justin: incredible. Trent actually stood up in front of the group the first day we got back. And it was probably the start of the vulnerability piece at Richmond, which became really big through that period [00:23:00] and the DNA of that team.

[00:23:01] Justin: But he stood up at about... Talking about him, him as a captain and him as a person and, um, what he hasn't liked about his game and what he wants to be and, um, and about giving back to the team. And it was a, I thought it was a real catalyst for the season. At the time, it was very unusual for someone to do, do that.

[00:23:17] Justin: It's more, you see more vulnerability now and it's more common in, in, in, you know, AFL sport now. But, um, back then, no one really did that. I'd never seen, um, a player, let alone a captain, do something like that in front of a group and show his warts. So, uh. Firstly, I was taking it back and, oh, this is interesting.

[00:23:33] Justin: And then, to watch him put it in place. And basically what it meant is, and maybe the club didn't set him up to succeed either because, you know, trying to get Trent 25, 30 positions a game by running around the back and maybe he felt like a bit of a fraud himself, thinking, I don't feel like I'm helping by doing that.

[00:23:48] Justin: Um, if I get 19 or 20 and lay 10 tackles and give the ball out, I'm probably better value. And I think that's what he was trying to say and, and he just became that player and he was happy to do that. And, [00:24:00] and it was a great lesson for everybody that you don't have to. Do everything or be everything. He was a wonderful leader and knew what he needed to do out there and Yeah, and become a great of the game.

[00:24:10] Ayrton: 2017 was also one of the great individual years we've maybe seen from from anyone in recent times in terms of Dusty and he spent his time forward and Mid and you you'd like to seem like you like to isolate him at different times how much coaching would you do with a player like Dustin in terms of how he went about his game versus natural talent and ability that he might have had 

[00:24:32] Justin: Well, there were some things we sort of fell upon, um, like, for instance Dustin, it's like Batman and Robins, you've got Dustin and you've got Cain Lambert, and Cain used to always just work around Dusty, and Dusty would do a stoppage in the front half, and then he'd just drift, slowly drift forward, and if he was sprinting forward, Cain would sprint up, if he's walking forward, Cain would sort of walk, he was always watching Dusty and covering for his moves, and seeing what he was doing to make sure we always had structure in certain areas, but we also had our best player in the spots we needed him to be, so, [00:25:00] um, Yeah, so that, that little, um, manoeuvre and move is still moved, used nowadays through, through teams, but that little duo they had, that was, that was a wonderful synergy for us.

[00:25:11] Justin: Truth be no, we didn't know at times what was going on. Um, , you know, w 'cause we just had to leave it up to them to sort of work out, which made us hard to scout as well because, 'cause when your own coaches' box isn't sure, are they holding? Is it you dusty up as can? And they, they'd eventually they'd go, no, they've got it.

[00:25:25] Justin: They've worked it out. And they would, so we didn't have to send out messages 'cause they, they'd worked it out after a period of time. Um, so yeah, it was, uh, that was, yeah. And then that's I think any premiership team. Um, You know, you've got to have the little parts that actually work for you, and that, that was a bit of a signature of that team.

[00:25:41] Ayrton: Before we, we go on to Collingwood in more recent times, we've sort of skipped over your time as a senior coach, but I'm interested, Lepa, you. I'm interested now, though, that you've been at several clubs, and you've... As a player and as a coach, how, um, different [00:26:00] you are now or how many, how you might have viewed yourself then versus the way you view yourself now as a coach and, and, and your evolution then to, to now in terms of what you.

[00:26:12] Justin: Um, uh, I guess any, any time you go through hardships, that's the greatest learnings. It's the greatest thing to reflect on. And you should always reflect on yourself first and foremost, um, which I've done. And, and what I've been able to learn as a coach is that, um, Um, and I was, I was actually going through, um, at Collingwood when I, uh, started there.

[00:26:31] Justin: Our psych asked me, went for a walk, she said, What, what's the main thing you've learned in your time at coaching? I said, well, when I first started, it was, Leppy, you've got to have a philosophy. What's your philosophy on this? What are you going to do about that? What are you going to? And it just kept going on and you, and you, and that's fine.

[00:26:44] Justin: You do have to have your philosophies. But if someone had to just grab me and said, you know what? Just get to know the person and coach them the way they want to be coached. That's it. If someone had just given me that advice from the start, I would have been a hundred times better coach. Because you end up creating a philosophy, and you may not agree with it.

[00:26:59] Justin: [00:27:00] Or you go hard on something, or that player doesn't play that particular way. So you gotta, you gotta mould to them as much as they mould to you. So, I was probably, if anything, going, this is the way you've gotta play. This is the way you've gotta win. This is the way you've gotta train. All those sorts of things where I think that's what leads to people then not being themselves, or playing the way they want to play, or all those sorts of things.

[00:27:20] Justin: The other part of that is, I had the youngest team in the competition, with, you know, I think the last year definitely had the worst injury rate and all those sorts of things add up to not, you're not going to be near the top of the ladder when that's happening either, so, choose wisely is a good one, because you've got to have support around you there to help to get you through, and, um, so, yeah, so those two things are the two things I took out of it, um, if you ever do it again, make sure you've got the right You know, support around you, the right list that you can, you can help and contribute.

[00:27:47] Justin: I think I'm a good development coach, but I think I'm pretty good. I'm probably a better coach when I've got some pieces to work with. Um, then just given a mere young team to be a bit more impatient than most other coaches. So then wait and hold and hold. It probably [00:28:00] doesn't suit my personality as a coach.

[00:28:02] Justin: It's more, I'm a bit more dynamic and a bit more strategic and like to, um, yeah, just, you know, it's 

[00:28:08] Wayne: a great point you make because that's. Not only has the game changed but the evolution of coaching clearly is a massive and that's why You know when you look at you know Even Johnny Longmire at Sydney who you know It's got a little bit of that old school coach by pagan and then you've got Clark Clark I was a massive watch this space because he is old school He is hard lined and then you look at the new coach the McRae's of the world and who's I just got his job but these young coaches that Put their trust back into you And, and, and the relationship's completely different.

[00:28:43] Wayne: I mean, that's the main, Nathan Buckley, a great example. The first, I don't know how many years he coached, and then he changed his ways in 18, and he gets to a grand final, sort of morphs back into a little bit of what he'd done prior, and you look at what McRae's done now. That, that is the, I think that's the biggest evolution [00:29:00] in that job that we've seen in the history of the game.

[00:29:04] Justin: Yeah, people want their own space. Well, you employed me to be a center forward or full back. I've got to do the job as well. And I'm a happy 

[00:29:10] Wayne: go lucky guy and I like laughing before a game. I don't have to be serious. So all of those little, little things. 

[00:29:16] Justin: Remember when I started, like, cause, you know, you think about it with Robert Walsh.

[00:29:20] Justin: You, you, you literally got them three nights a week. Players, people were still working. Like, you only had three nights a week. You couldn't really have enough time to implement strategy. There was no behind the girls vision. What are you going to coach them? You know, you're going to coach them? You're not serious unless you tuck your shirt in, mate.

[00:29:33] Justin: Pull your socks up. So that's, that's really your KPIs back then is, is what we call nowadays pretty dumb stuff like that. Like that's really what, um, all they could do because it provided, um, this is at least you're being serious. No, no talking on the bus on the way to the games. And I remember that saying God, I hated footy.

[00:29:47] Justin: Like, it wasn't any fun, whereas nowadays that part's gone from the player and we don't use it as an assessment tool, um, whether they do that or don't. 

[00:29:55] Ayrton: So you've, you've obviously um, moved on to Collingwood now, but you have, you did have [00:30:00] a little break in there and I think you'd, you'd spoken previously about the, the balance that coaches face in their life.

[00:30:05] Ayrton: Have there been times where, well I think you've said that you, you didn't, you didn't love footy and, and I find that funny now seeing you from the outside and, and how it looks like you're loving footy again. How, how tough was it at the end of, was it end of 20 that you, you left Richland? Was that a product of Hub and needing a change?

[00:30:23] Ayrton: Or how did that sort of play out in your work life balance? 

[00:30:27] Justin: Yeah, I think so. Um, it was a very difficult time for footy clubs. Um, so post the Hub, everyone knows the soft cap went down 33%. It hasn't gone back much up since then. Um, everyone else is getting paid. Uh, but the... The one thing about that is that people, coaches like myself are left with a choice.

[00:30:44] Justin: Now, I've been at Richmond, um, four years. And I think you always gotta keep thinking, when is my time up at a footy club? And I don't think it was then, but it probably wasn't that far away. Um, and they had to make cuts, they had to do, and there's a lot of young coaches with careers, and then I think, [00:31:00] you know what, that, It's, I'm probably okay to, with all this, to say, you know, I'll put my hand up here, I reckon, I've given four years, you know, the guys know my coaching, I think players have to keep evolving and getting new coaches around them to give them new little tools, um, so it was just good timing, I think, um, more than anything.

[00:31:20] Justin: Did some great, went out there, coached my daughter's football team, coached the local team, worked with Wayne and Channel 7 for a bit, did some SCN. The beauty about that is I met, I guess the media part of the world, which I probably had disdain for really up until that point. Not disdain, but I always thought they were against you.

[00:31:37] Justin: Knowing that, you see, you know, Sam has been running around, he's just trying to scratch around to entertain us and get us a story. He's not really, he's not doing something to go, I'm gonna stick it up, you know, you know, this guy today. Or they don't run around and, I used to think they used to think like that, but, um, it wasn't the case.

[00:31:53] Justin: Um, they're just there to try to do their jobs, um, and look at times, coarsely, they go over the top. Um, report the wrong [00:32:00] things, and there's a battle to get the news story out there. But at least I saw a human side to that part of the business, which I hadn't seen before. So, that gets, from that point it's given me a different perspective on people in the media as well, and their role and what they're trying to achieve.

[00:32:14] Justin: So, yeah, and then, and then look, let's be honest, the only reason I ended up back in footy was through Craig Macrae. And, you know, I helped him sort of get the job, but he said, I want you to come back and I think Dan had locked us down for about the 15th time and I probably didn't have a lot of faith in what was going on in the world.

[00:32:28] Justin: And I thought I probably should take this job because who knows what's going to happen. We could be in lockdown for the next 50 years away we go. Um, so there was a bit of that timing as well is why I ended up back into it. It's 

[00:32:38] Ayrton: almost a level of fate there for you in that regard. And then you've obviously, you've been part of the success at Collingwood.

[00:32:45] Ayrton: There was, we knew the talent was there at Collingwood, but they'd finished, you know, 17th in, in with Bucks. How quickly did you think you could get this group with Craig back to where you wanted it to be? And then the last two years, obviously, you know, nearly making the Granny last year, [00:33:00] and then having the success this year.

[00:33:01] Ayrton: Did you always think that was possible, or has this group almost exceeded what you initially set out to do? 

[00:33:07] Justin: Probably exceeded. When you grab a team at 17th, you don't think you're going to make a prelim the following year. And then there's more questions to ask even then. Was it a fluke? A lot of close games?

[00:33:17] Justin: All those sorts of things. So to go again, I definitely didn't think that was going to happen. I think the greatest challenge was going to be, and this is a bit of backroom talk, but Collingwood probably went from a slower game style. Um, kick mark game style, running about 120 odd metres a minute, and this game style gets to about 140.

[00:33:35] Justin: So, it, it, it was a pre season challenge, it was a game styling challenge, and it's how quickly they can adapt to the faster running game style. And you don't know that, um, when you go through it, you know what's going to happen, there's going to be some players fall out. Um, because that might have actually liked the old style, it suits it a bit more, it's not going to suit this style.

[00:33:53] Justin: We're probably lucky we had enough players that, that suited it, and liked it, and wanted to play it. And I think that, that's the most [00:34:00] important part. 

[00:34:01] Wayne: You're lucky? Or, or just bloody good at winning close games, 

[00:34:05] Justin: the past? Uh, well we, we've trained it more, and that's the one thing that, my, Craig's been my best mate for 30 years, and, um, we, you know, got to, from 1995 there at the Brisbane Bears, in the bad old Bears days, but...

[00:34:18] Justin: The one part of his coaching I didn't expect him to want to put more hours into is the scenario based stuff. He's going to do, you know, late game, in front, um, and we had that at Richmond as well. So we had the if we're in front, if we're behind stuff, but it was almost, okay, remember, just remember if it's close again on a walkthrough, what's the setup?

[00:34:37] Justin: And that's really it. We didn't spend any hours on the track with it. We just kept to make sure every week or two, we just kept it refreshed so the players remembered it. But, um, maybe that was a part of the problem because we kept, I think half the time we should have won by 30 points in some of these games and we put, take a foot off, it gets close again.

[00:34:52] Justin: And then. Um, Richmond were probably, when we were there, a bit more clinical in finishing games, whereas we, we weren't as good at doing that, so good or, good and [00:35:00] bad, but um, in the end it was helpful, um, clearly three close finals, and um, I think the, I think the public now see it, and what it looks like late in games, and we need to strangle a game, and, and, you know, the ball doesn't move too far off the field, and it stays in that same position, it, it probably has changed the game a little bit, So don't worry, if you're Sam Mitchell right now, you're the bottom of the ladder.

[00:35:18] Justin: Do you reckon scenarios is the first thing you're thinking about? You're probably not. You're just hoping to get into that scenario enough, you know. So it is something you do with a bit more of a mature team. 

[00:35:28] Wayne: I've mentioned this a couple of times, uh, during the year and all my Collingwood, uh, friends out there that, um, I think I tipped against Collingwood 30 times this year, by the way.

[00:35:36] Wayne: You won all 30 games that I tipped against you, so they should be thanking me. But it's quite remarkable when you think about it. Um, who didn't play a lot of the year anyway, um, new to the club, played a really good final, um, you know, gets injured, doesn't play in the granny. Your number one forward is Majercek, and you win a, and you win a, a premiership with him being your number one forward [00:36:00] all year.

[00:36:01] Wayne: It is a remarkable story. I don't think, um, you know, you go back to your three premierships and you've got Alistair Lynch, Jonathan Brown and Bradshaw all in your, all in your forward line and that's not including Ackermanis floating there and others floating, you know, through the, through that forward line as well.

[00:36:17] Wayne: So it is an unbelievable story, that, this premiership. 

[00:36:22] Justin: It is and, um. And what it just shows is key forwards aren't worth much, really, are they, when it? I reckon you'd pay a fair bit for one. Oh, yeah, no. Actually, you would if 

[00:36:32] Wayne: it went on the market. Well, you paid a lot for... You know, I'm so good at one, but anyway.

[00:36:36] Wayne: Oh, 

[00:36:38] Justin: hang on. I thought that was the truth here. No, 

[00:36:40] Wayne: I'm saying McStay, it wasn't, he's not a massive possession. Paid a lot for a guy, and you're going to get the pay. It 

[00:36:50] Justin: actually wasn't a lot of money in the end, and that's probably the bit that... The perception? The perception. It wasn't a lot of... And now that the cab's going up to where it's going, and what people have paid Key [00:37:00] Forge a long period of time was actually quite reasonable, to be honest.

[00:37:02] Justin: But... It's funny when you go through the list management part of the game, you know how hard it is to find a gun key forward? There's probably only 12 in the comp. And Geelong's had two of them for the last five years. But, like, those big, tall, strong clunking forwards, there isn't as many. There used to be at least one in every team, maybe two back when we played.

[00:37:22] Justin: It's just harder to find. And it's harder game for a key forward now with numbers rolling back behind. You would have hate playing now, Wayne. Actually, the amount of suspension you'd have from the impacts in the back and whacking him in the head, 

[00:37:33] Wayne: getting in the way. You're allowed to attack the footy. Oh, yeah.

[00:37:37] Wayne: Well, it brings up another point and a point that I made earlier in the year and your great coach Lee Matthews backed over last week. Hugelhagen, right now, if you, if he became available, would he be the first player that you would, you would, Collingwood would, uh, go and approach given his age and, and what the upside and what you saw a little bit of this year?

[00:37:58] Wayne: Yeah. [00:38:00] Um, 

[00:38:00] Justin: look, you'd be an idiot if you wouldn't have a kid like that on your radar, because he's a superstar. Like, already he's shown signs, um, like he played on Darcy Moore and, you know, for periods of that game made a player as good as Darcy struggle. You know, so you see those glimpses and that's all you're looking for young players, is they don't have to domino you.

[00:38:18] Justin: Well, he can do things that other players can't do and he's clearly in that category. And as I said, when you've only got 10, 15 of the, of those potential in the game, of course they become valuable, even more valuable, but the hardest part is getting them. Like that, that's the, I mean, you, you get a kid, you look after them, you keep them entrenched.

[00:38:34] Justin: They rarely move clubs, particularly those because, um, yeah, because it's, it's so hard to get. You 

[00:38:41] Ayrton: obviously had all of these close finals and it almost became this sort of self fulfilling prophecy around you guys winning those games. I'm interested. In the, the balance with the players in terms of keeping them in line at times because I know you said you want the players to be themselves and they've got this confidence in themselves, uh, in terms of the roles that they are going to play but when you, [00:39:00] you're giving sides a chance in, in different games, how do you deliver that message in terms of doing what we want to do and still having the confidence that we're good enough that That we're going to get it right when it matters.

[00:39:13] Justin: Yeah, it's funny because a lot of our, um, if you talk about consistency of things we might have spoken about this year. Defensively we're pretty good. Our guys really bought into our system and how we play. Often at times it was offensively. Like you play Melbourne, you don't want to kick the ball down the line to go on.

[00:39:27] Justin: So you, like every team, would go in with a plan not to do that. And you spend a whole quarter doing it. Because the pressure of the situation, you don't want to turn the ball over. You don't want to back yourself in. So it's actually a confidence thing. Sometimes while you're not playing as well, because you're worried about the potential result of doing something.

[00:39:44] Justin: So the plan's there, but they've got to have the confidence also to execute the plan. And sometimes the safest thing, as we know, I just kick the ball down the line, get out of my area, well Max is just going to keep marking it and sending it back as well. So, um, yeah, they force you into those particular areas.

[00:39:58] Justin: But, um, other than that, look, [00:40:00] we don't have... We don't get upset with skill errors. People say, why not? Because you put a system in place, or a defensive system in place, for instance, that enables the players to make mistakes. So, if they make a mistake, you've got a system there that'll protect you. So, we always just say to the boys, well just invest in the system, because the system's there to look after you.

[00:40:19] Justin: So you can make a blue. Because if you make a blue and lose the ball and look up, we've got defence in place, they can't go anywhere with it. So, you're always trying to lean on them and sell them those messages of backing in the team system and they'll look after you. And most times it did for us. You'd see a lot of messy ball, we'd make an error, they'd look up, the opposition would kick it and Darcy would mark it.

[00:40:38] Justin: So for them it was just keeping them confident in how we play and reassuring them. People forget, Lisa called it a dripping tap of coaching. It's like a dripping tap if you forget for a week or for two, you're just slipping and evolving. It's like, okay, we've done this half for two weeks, geez, we're defending well, and then we stop moving the ball well.

[00:40:55] Justin: When was the last time we've really focused on it? It's been three weeks. You know what, so you're [00:41:00] just, you're just sliding what you're doing. It's not changing, but you're always just sliding your focus. Um, yeah, cause we can't remember all parts of it all the 

[00:41:07] Ayrton: time. And fast forward to, to grand final then, uh, players, you know, obviously they've got to have a life outside of footy, but as someone even just, you know, playing local footy, I, I wouldn't do much the night before a game, not really my style, but.

[00:41:20] Ayrton: I, I just wonder what you thought when you, when you heard about Jack, uh, guine and gonna the races on a Friday night at Moon Valley before . 

[00:41:27] Justin: My first thought is did he win the quad ? And then, uh, if he didn't, it's no good. Uh, look, I, someone, Jack's always the topic of conversation, and then I, I always say the same thing, that these kids are growing up in front of our eyes.

[00:41:40] Justin: He's a 19 year old kid. He's gonna make a lot of blues, and he is made another one. Um, When I spoke to Jack this year, I said I don't feel for you mate, when I was 19 I was playing for the Brisbane Bears and no one knew who I was. I said, you can't go anywhere, I said, and he said yeah, I really wanted to go watch my sister play footy, I just, I didn't even end up going.

[00:41:57] Justin: Like, so, he's putting up [00:42:00] with things of his age and stopped going to things and, and, cause he didn't want to get hassled or, you know, whatever it is. So there, there's a lot on the other end as well that he's got to put up with it. Most 19 year olds, maybe 20 now, don't have to put up with. But, and then there's other things that he's got to learn and learn the hard way.

[00:42:15] Justin: So I don't, I'm not crooked him like it's the worst thing someone's ever done. Um, but it's, I think it's just a learning curve for him to kind of go, is this the best thing right now? And if that thing in the back of your mind is asking you that question, it's probably no, and so don't do it. And then that's probably the lesson out of these things.

[00:42:32] Wayne: So what is your, your role now, Lepa, because I read in the paper the other day and I don't believe it. I read in the paper, but, uh, well, it's always good to be wanted. Yeah. You know, stories about, so will your role change at the Pies next year? And, and, and what will that role 

[00:42:49] Justin: exactly be? Yeah, well, my job now is head of strategy.

[00:42:52] Justin: So pretty much running our offensive, defensive stuff, um, looking after our opposition and, and what the opposition guys are doing, our analytics and things like [00:43:00] that, that, that will stay there. Um. I guess I'm, I'm really, what it really means is I'm losing now my, the line focus. So I was coaching also the forwards this year on a game day.

[00:43:09] Justin: Um, that will go and, and now I can spend more time on the futuristic parts of what we do. Um, so I don't want to bore the listeners to death, but there's a lot of analytics taking over the game and how we make decisions and to get those things a little bit more streamlined, particularly in the coach's box and things like that.

[00:43:25] Justin: Um, some of our, um, projects we want to do like... Within skill based stuff as well, help out the, those departments and also help coach our coaches as well. It's almost going from, um, you know, fishing to teach a man to fish in some ways. Um, I'm getting closer to that. Um, so yeah, so the role itself and the name of it.

[00:43:46] Justin: I don't, I'm a bit funny with names. I don't like getting too close into that, but it'd be more of a football performance type role. So, uh, which is awesome and which is something the Bulldogs came with me at a bit earlier as well. 

[00:43:58] Ayrton: So, before we, [00:44:00] you've been so generous with your time there, but before we leave this year, there's one more guy I wanted to ask about, and he's a guy who's been at Collingwood forever, but I saw a video of Pendles the other day, really enjoying the celebrations, and it feels funny seeing him there, because he's almost, he's almost a whole lot older than all these guys, but just what is his influence on this whole And his ability just to get up for every game.

[00:44:22] Ayrton: So we were talking about him the other day and where he sits in the sort of Collingwood, you know, picture now. It's amazing what he's been able to do so consistently over a long period of time. 

[00:44:31] Justin: Yeah, it's, it's what an advantage to have a coach on the field. Um, it's, I've never had the position, and I've, I've actually coached a lot of really smart players.

[00:44:38] Justin: But, um, you know, let's say something happened defensively, a breakdown on the field, or, or what have you, and, and those that have played the game know it's very different, the view on the field when you've got these, Players zinging past you and there's, you don't have the 360 degree view like a coach's box does, that you're looking down onto it perfectly, you can see the gaps.

[00:44:57] Justin: It's like he's sitting in the coach's box. Because he'll [00:45:00] come to the break, he'll walk out and go, now Taylor Adams on that one, did you see what, do you want him sort of more 8 metres over there, did you see how he, I'm like. I was just about to talk to him about that. He'd already seen it and assessed it and spoken to him.

[00:45:10] Justin: It's like, that's kind of next level stuff. It's like, wow, um, you don't, that level of coaching. He goes, I'll just go home then Pendles, you just take over from here. So, like he will obviously be a, uh, if he's not in coaching, he's got to be doing something in footy cause he's, his brain's too good. I don't, I don't think the game will pay him enough to keep him there.

[00:45:27] Justin: That's half the problem. He's doing so well off the field. But, um, yeah, what a, yeah, I've never. I've never experienced something like that. Sean Grigg at Richmond was very similar like that. I mean, any six foot one that could be a Premiership Ruckman, you've got to have some sort of smarts to you and work it out and work out what to do and when to do it and when to jump and when to stay down.

[00:45:44] Justin: He had that level of summing up a game really, really well. Um, but yeah, Pendles is amazing. 

[00:45:50] Ayrton: Just finally, uh, I don't know if it came as a shock to you, but we're in the middle of the trade period. Did you see the Taylor Adams stuff coming? And obviously a heart and soul player at Collingwood, [00:46:00] but now moved on.

[00:46:01] Ayrton: Did you see that, given his role, it maybe shifted from what he 

[00:46:05] Justin: had originally? I don't think any shocks me anymore. Um, you know, Taylor was an inside mid predominantly, and then he played predominantly half forward this year. And we always knew we had passions to go back in there. We bring Tom Mitchell, who plays a lot of his minutes, and I thought he played the mainly half forward stuff really well with bits of inside mids, so.

[00:46:25] Justin: I don't know. I don't think anything shocks me, to be perfectly honest. Um, so no, no it doesn't, it doesn't surprise me. I'm actually proud for him that he's got a club that's going to give him the opportunity that he wants. Because next year wasn't probably going to change at Collingwood. So, um, he didn't want to leave.

[00:46:39] Justin: Like, he's heart and soul Collingwood person and, and we love him. Um. But, you know, sometimes this happens. Sometimes you're, you know, a part of the person that wants to go and like, you see your mates go other years and now it's like, this is me now. I'm the guy out like, um, so yeah, it happens as a player and as a coach, unfortunately.

[00:46:56] Ayrton: Well, Lepa, you've been so generous with your time, as we said, uh, when we had Jacko on [00:47:00] here a few weeks ago, there was a bit of banter between Duck and Jacko about who might have got, who might have got the best of 

[00:47:04] Wayne: them. We never, we, like I said, we never played them. Is this Mark Jackson? No, no. Glenn Jackovich.

[00:47:09] Wayne: Oh. No, I'm not that old. This is Mark Jackson. Um, no, we only played, we only, we played on one of the bits and pieces here and there. 

[00:47:18] Justin: Yeah, once, I actually got you that at the end when you were just about, I think you might have signed the papers already to 

[00:47:24] Wayne: retire from it. Once, once, the famous game, and I think Dermot Brereton was giving out votes on Channel 9.

[00:47:30] Wayne: It's when Channel 9 had the footy coverage and... He was playing centre half back, I was playing centre half forward. I kicked five, he kicked four. Dermy gave me three votes and gave him two votes. Geez, I should have got the three, I reckon. Well, probably, given I was the forward. How does, how does that happen?

[00:47:46] Wayne: Were you just showing him no respect? the way, we won the game. Oh, yeah, 

[00:47:49] Justin: righto, yeah, good. So... It was actually one, if, if it wasn't North Melbourne versus Brisbane at Eddiehead, it was probably one of the games of the century because, um... Wayne kicked all his goals in the first half and I kicked mine in the second as [00:48:00] well.

[00:48:00] Justin: So, you're coming in five goals down, playing on him. You're normally thinking I'm going to go a bit extra defensive. I kind of went the other way. Um, probably just shows how young and dumb I was at that point in time. But we were 40 points down at three quarter time. And, um, Yeah, lost by three or something like that.

[00:48:16] Justin: It's come back in the last quarter. So it's actually a pretty cool game to be a part of. But, I don't think we got Brownlow votes though. That particular day. No, unfortunately. That doesn't surprise me. Key 

[00:48:24] Ayrton: position players always go on about how hard they've done. Bloody 

[00:48:28] Wayne: awards. No, well, mate, you've done a, I'll tell you what you have become before we let you go.

[00:48:33] Wayne: You've become a little bit of the Midas touch, uh, man, now I'm not, Neil Balm, I've no 

[00:48:40] Justin: stretch to say. You've got the same size head. 

[00:48:43] Wayne: But he just, everywhere Neil's gone, he's had a bit of success and you're just starting to, it's just starting to turn that way for you, which we're not starting to turn. It's been going that way for a while, so hopefully it continues 

[00:48:55] Justin: for you, mate.

[00:48:56] Justin: Thanks for having me on, guys. Enjoyed it. Thank you. Been a great chat. 

[00:48:59] Ayrton: That is The True [00:49:00] Thirts with Justin Lepich.